it would have some big defense cuts. lindsey graham's even saying, it's better than nothing. what do you say? do you think sequestration has to be avoided at all cost, or could it go into effect, forcing some sort of spending cuts and fiscal discipline? >> well, i think we can and we should continue to both reduce expenditures and add revenues in a balanced approach to debt reduction that should take several years. it took several years from 2000, where we had a surplus under president clinton to get to a deficit under president bush. so it will take some time. but i think sequestration is a blunt instrument. it doesn't allow the cabinet secretaries, not just the secretary of defense, but the secretary of every other agency, to make judicious judgments about which programs are higher priority. and we in the congress should be able to make those judgments ourselves, working with the administration. so i don't think it's the right instrument. i think the goal is appropriate, which is to reduce the deficit, do it in a balanced way, and recognize that there are some things that y